Etz 301 ignition question

[Trogolodyte]

I picked up an Etz301 (not a kanuni) recently for not a lot of money, that I want to use in my newly (reconditioned and powder coated) 301 frame. The trouble is that I am using an Etz251 with points as the parts donator but the 301 engine has the later model electronic ignition, not points. The wiring diagram I have shows the 4 charging circuit wires as per the normal 251 stator, but it also shows ignition circuit feeding into a "black box" before feeding to the ignition coil. The link below shows this at the bottom

http://www.ostmotorrad.de/schaltplaene/ ... an_12v.jpg

Does anyone know what the black box is and where can I get one from...? I think it is a Cdi unit of some kind

[radiograf]

The part does look like its a cdi box, and they appear as rare as hens teeth on ebay (UK and Germany).The cheapest option may be a power dynamo system, if you dont want a complete system, they do an ignition only option for about 100 euro.
http://www.powerdynamo.biz

[Louis Mair]

With the electronic (later, 1991-on) models there is an electronic regulator mounted on the generator stator. It is possible to cut a small piece of aluminium from the earlier stator and tap threads in two holes that are already there (M4 x short). You can then solder (3 wires/phases) and screw on the electronic regulator. To complete a conversion to electronic you will need the CEV tachometer/clock and a wiring loom. I have been told that there is an electronic 'thing' in the tacho/clock casing that is necessary for the whole system to work.
As radiograf says you can fit a dynamomotor electronic trigger and coil for a reasonable price to any 12volt 2-stroke.
Your cdi box may be after-market.
I believe that the rotors don't change, at least the graphite slip-ring more common type. The dynamomotor website gives details of copper slip-ring rotors that are slightly more complex.
I guess you've already figured out that points are simple!
Louis

[Trogolodyte]

Louis, there are two kinds of electronic ignition fitted to 251 & 301 Mz's, one kind is the later (kanuni type) as you described with a voltage regulator fitted to the stator.
( see pic in the link below )
http://www.powerdynamo.biz/deu/systems/ ... vllima.jpg

The other kind (the same as in the wiring diagram I posted earlyer and the kind fitted to my 301 engine) just has the ignition rotor and trigger/sensor, (see pic in the link below)

http://www.powerdynamo.biz/deu/systems/ ... /ibox1.jpg

and the charging circuit feeds to a separate regulator & rectifier mounted under the saddle as per the older points system.

What I need to know is Does the older variant like mine use a CDI box of some kind or does it have (like all the other points type Mz ignition systems) a Fixed ignition firing point of between 2.75mm-3.00mm Btdc. I need to know as the only good wiring diagram I have access to that shows any of the the electronic ignition system, shows the ignition feeding into a "black box" that looks suspiciously like some kind of CDI unit, and then feeds to the ignition coil. I don't want and really can not afford to fork out £80-£100 on a powerdynamo set up unless I absolutely have to...

[Louis Mair]

From the ETZ manual it seems that there was an EBZA-M ignition system. I've never owned one and it seems to have it's own type of coil. There is a control unit with six wires. It dates from 1988 to 1991 and is linked to the earlier mechanical regulator set-up.
They all have the same 3mm timing point. They made it sound more technical with the ETZ by saying 2.5mm + 0.5mm. The ETZ manual gives the timing check with a bulb between terminal 1 on the coil and earth.
If you can get all the bits for the EBZA-M system cheap and secondhand then it could be a winner. If not it's dynamomotor for you!
Either way an MZ workshop manual is a good investment.
If you've got points why not use them till your next big bonus comes through?
Louis

[Trogolodyte]

It would seem to me that I am going blind in my old age, and am in desperate need of ocular clarity. I have just found the rest of the loom and there tucked away underneath the barrel was the damned thing I was looking for. Its tiny in Comparison to other CDI's from similar bikes of the period, like the nippon denso unit on the Rotax Mz bikes and a few of the older Xr250 and cb250's... but then it is in a dark 8x10 shed... thats my excuse and am sticking to it.

[DAVID THOMPSON]

8x10 shed your lucky

i have about 4000 sq feet of space....in 3 rooms
84 years of dad's stuff not sorted
87 years of mom's stuff not sorted
67 years of my stuff not sorted
I CAN'T FIND ANY THING ...

i know its in there i just cant find it
Dave

[Louis Mair]

With the compliments of http://mzclub.foroactivo.net/t856-esquema-electrico-mz-etz-250:
http://www.miraculis.de/aw/mz/text/etz251bs/schalt.jpg
any ciber screw-ups are my responsibility.
I think the electronic bits are the ones at the bottom right.
Louis

[Trogolodyte]

sorry louis, That dont help much as they both show the Old points & mechanical regulator system, not the later electronic systems

[Louis Mair]

BOTTOM RIGHT; ELEKTRONISCHE BATTERIEZUNDANLAGEN; NUMBER 33 HAS SIX WIRES
You make me feel good about my own eyesight!
Louis

[Trogolodyte]

Still don't help much as I already have that wiring diagram, its the one I posted on 26th june, this one, ( http://www.ostmotorrad.de/schaltplaene/ ... an_12v.jpg )

and besides its irrelevent now because as I posted on the 9th July "It would seem to me that I am going blind in my old age, and am in desperate need of ocular clarity. I have just found the rest of the loom and there tucked away underneath the other side of the barrel was the damned thing I was looking for. Its tiny in Comparison to other CDI's and ignition control box's, from similar bikes of the period, like the nippon denso unit on the Rotax Mz bikes and a few of the older Xr250 and cb250's... but then it is in a dark 8x10 shed... thats my excuse and am sticking to it."