MZ v all the rest

[AlanJ]

Hi Guys,
As you may have read, I am at this time doing a refurb on a Honda CB400A that's a Hondamatic and I am on the last legs of it. Reason for the post. Before I retired I was a design engineer for Fords for 30 yrs, so I have a reasonable understanding of the following. As I have been sorting out the Honda, it has not run for 17yrs, I am finding quite a few of the plastic parts are failing, ie. bosses for screws and bolts are breaking up due to the age and UV problem.
To be honest, there are times when this happens it really is a problem because the parts may not be available, new,so one can only get second hand parts which obviously can have UV aging and also the Honda parts are a stupid price, I recently bought 2x 40mm O rings to seal carb to head and they were just short of £16, from a well known Honda parts guy. Again, as you may have read/seen I have recently refurbed 2 of my MZ's, the TS 250/1 and the 301 Tour, and I was very pleased with them both. I didn't do them up to show cond. but close, What I have realised is that the Honda is a manufacturer not unlike Fords that when designing various parts especially plastics all the webs and bosses are as thin that they do not show sinks on the visual side, of course that doesn't allways give best streanth to the part. Sorry if this is a bit long winded, but remembering my 2 Z's I must say I didn't have the above problems with either of them. So, the conclusion is we all know that Z's are built a bit BS Housy but I must say they were a pleasure to work on, and easy, compaired to the Honda which is an absolute B++++++d. Look after your Z's they deserve it.
Take care all Alan.

[liquidgold]

Its not just Honda's Alan. I ran BMW's flat twins for 25 years and similar things happen to side panels and fairing parts. As for your 'O' rings. I am playing around with a Russian two stroke at the moment and needed some small Viton petrol proof 'O' rings when refurbishing the carburettor. ABC Bearings in Peterborough supplied a dozen for £3.60 when I gave them the dimensions. John

[AlanJ]

Hi John,
Thanks for the info, re the O rings, I actually got them from Ebay for £3-90 incl postage that price in the original post was from David Silver who I must say was very cleaver in buying up discontinued stock so he can charge what he likes. Shame really, he won't even give our local bike shop discount When I was sorting the 2 Z's I bought some parts from Germany And Miami but mostly from Turkey although I found just recently the shipping is getting a bit high. After the Honda I still Have A Saxon Tour 301 to do which I will sell. I already have most of the new parts for that one. Looking a comparison prices a pair of front forks complete for a TS or ETZ etc is 500L which is about £100 and then shipping, and in Doing up the Honda it has cost just over £500 to sort the same wth rechromed stations. To be honest I only started the Honda To get a bike with a button start, I should have gone for a Rotax Tour instead.
Take care Alan.

[Blurredman]

I have a love/hate relationship with my Honda CX500..

http://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/pictures/bikes/cx/20150806/hole1.JPG



It has a second engine in it now after an unsuccessful rebuild of the original went horibly wrong (have yet to delve why) at 70k miles, but I did a tour of europe in it 2 or 3 years back covering 4,000 miles on a new engine in 10 days, going so far as to Servia. And I must say it took quite a battering really. I know It didn't help that it was December and snowing but here is the list of things that occured to it within those 10 days:

- Both left indicator and right indicator has stopped working
- Horn has stopped working
- Rear brake switch burned out, literally smoked one morning and caught fire.
- Left exhaust silencer has a crack 6 inches in length around the diametre of the mount extending further through vibration
- Several nuts/bolts have disapeared entirely
- Mountings for the top box have snapped
- Cooling Impeller's internal teeth for mating with the cam have sheered off- This was bodged in Berlin but I required to purchase a new impeller- (my own fault through engine building really)
- Tachometre/Rev Counter has stopped working (cable)

It also had a hard time starting some days, where the starter would turn once a second and then slowly and gradually increase in speed and then start the engine. Other times it started promptly.



When I went to Turkey on my MZ a few months back, I was increasingly amazed about the fact that nothing went wrong. Other than a small low slide which of course things broke and of course that is my own fault and not the bike's, all I had to do was chain lubrication and adjustment. The only thing which could have posed an issue, but I knew it was a temporary thing was the fact that there seemed to be HT lead/Spark plug cap issues when it rained (would just cut out)- I later covered those items in grease and the issue did not come back. It blew only two bulbs.

My Honda frame has had 10 rust HOLES welded up and plated, including two on the swingarm. It seems quite prone to rust. I cannot find any rust on the MZ to cause concern even though the paint is straight onto the metal.

Honda: http://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/pictures/bikes/cx/20150806/hole1.JPG

[AlanJ]

Hi M,
As I tried to say in the first part of this post, Jap bikes are so tightly costed, material thickness's etc are set to keep the vehicle safe but as light as possible over a certain amount of years, certainly not 40yrs because they want to sell you a new one after 3 to 5 yrs. Looking at all the MZ's to be honest I don't think that was in the minds of the East German Engineers. I feel the Z's will still be around and kicking long after the Honda's and Yams etc have crumbled. Anyway guys, just me thoughts, take care Alan.

[Johnhenry]

Sorry I don't agree - I've rebuilt Honda's, Yamaha's, Suzuki's and a Kawasaki and find their build quality to be excellent - not built down to a price or length of life - they're just different from MZ's who had no shortage of aluminium and probably over engineered their bikes.

[AlanJ]

Hi John,
Sorry I haven't posted a reply earlier but I think you might have missed the point, I actually said that Z's were over engineered, as you did, but if you over engineer plastic panels you get sinks on the visual side, ok they will last a lot longer but will not look too good. The casting quality and overall engineering finish on Jap bikes is far superior, but what you do get with the MZ's is a vehicle with good down to earth use ability that is pretty well easy for most people to cope with and that's not so with most Jap bikes. To be honest John the electrics on my Honda CB400A are a right pain at the moment but this is a forum for Z's not Honda's so. I have just noticed that you said that Jap bikes will not be built down to price, but working as I have for over 30yrs as a design engineer for the auto trade I would be more than surprised if Japanese bikes are costed differently than cars, but I have never worked for a motorcycle co so.
Take care wish you well Alan.

[Blurredman]

I have a problem where my temperature guage over-reads (I hope! ) on my Honda CX500. instrument clusters run off 7v so need a regulator! Regulator seems to be working fine though.

Whilst putting it back together I sorted out a lot of the dodgy wiring, and when I thought I was done the headlamp wouldn't work. Found no voltage was coming through the wires. Traced it back to a dodgy block connection to the fuse box! Too many wires on this bike!!

[DAVID THOMPSON]

bikes have tooo many wires.

rewired the r50s years ago (1975) and got it down to the bare needs for inspection and road use
way to many wires and it was built in 1961

dave

[robertace]

Nice info and insights.