upgrade to electronic ignition or maintain..?

[otb123]

Just wondering what peoples general opinion is regarding upgrading to electronic ignition or sensible maintenance to the original system to build confidence in reliability?

I have an ETZ125 ('88) and once I have it all running well am considering an upgrade, I have seen the vape kits online (either the full alternator or just the ignition, using the original alternator) however they do seem on the more expensive side... Has anyone ever repurposed one of the accuspark kits (or similar) for use on an MZ as this would appear much cheaper?

Next option would be to keep the points, but swap the switching to a transistor based system, this would remove the contact wear on the points and depending on the system make the open gap much less crucial.

And final option would be to keep all original but with a bit of maintenance, from a reliability point of view, are there sensible changes that can be carried out? such as, is it worth renewing the contact capacitor (even though it seems to work), the coil (again currently works) or does this just introduce unknown components that may fail..?

Thanks for any opinions...

Cheers

[Guesi]

In the past I was no friend of electronic ignitions, because in the beginning they were unreliable and there was always the argument:

Ig the electronic ignition fails, you are stuck out in the nowhere and cannot improvise to get home.
With a contect ignition you will always be able to improvise and get home anyhow.

But times have changed.Electronic ignitions are reliable now and even IF it fails ..... everyone has a phone in his pocket and can call a frined to pick him up.
So you don´t have to spend the night sleeping close to your bike

The good thing about the electronic ignition is:

You have to fix the ignition timing once in a lifetime, it won´t change, bacause there is no physical wear.
And if you see it with an enviromental view: As you have always the best ignition timing, your fuel consumption is the lowest you can get and the power you get is the highest you can get
And if you have anb ignition that changes the timing depending on the revs you have a better starting , because in lower revs the igniton timing changes more to the Top dead center.

An electronic ignition is available for about 100 Euro.
https://www.guesi-motorradteile.de/pic_ ... CI3608.JPG

[otb123]

I'm guessing this is the kit you refer to https://www.guesi-motorradteile.de/index.php/eng/573/19955/c/_/_/?_?

Have you experience of this system? Its not clear from the description if this kit provides for timing changes depending on crank speed? Does the kit come with english instructions? Is it advised to change the coil at the same time or is the original generally reliable?

Does anyone know how this compares to the Vape kit https://www.vape.eu/mz-etz125150250251301-only-ignition-graphit-rotor-ring?

Thanks

[Guesi]

I'm guessing this is the kit you refer to https://www.guesi-motorradteile.de/index.php/eng/573/19955/c/_/_/?_?

Have you experience of this system? Its not clear from the description if this kit provides for timing changes depending on crank speed? Does the kit come with english instructions? Is it advised to change the coil at the same time or is the original generally reliable?

Thanks

There are several ignitions on the road with no negative feed-back.

The ignition timing starts at 0" on 1000 rpm
At about 2000 rpm it is at its full ignition timing (about 2,7 mm before TDC.
At the moment there is no english version of the installing instructions. But we will make a video and will publish it on youtube the next days (in german and in english)
The coil must not be changed (which allows also to change to contact breaker in case of failure of the elctronic ignition -which won´t happen )
But if you are on a long trip somewqhere in the desert you can take the contact breaker parts with you and change it in case of failure within 20 minutes...

[Guesi]

So here is the link to the video:

https://youtu.be/cb2Xy2_F4NM

[otb123]

Provided there is a drawing supplied, I'd be fine? What is typical delivery to the UK?

[Guesi]

What do you mean with drawing ? Wiring diagram ?
You don´t need a wiring diagram , because only 1 additional wire is needed.

[otb123]

I did mean a diagram, but hadn't noticed you had posted the video, now I can see watts needed...

Do you know delivery time to the UK?

Thanks

[Guesi]

I don´t know exactly how long it takes.I think about 1 Week.
Delivery costs are up to 500 gr. 8 Euro.

[otb123]

That's great, thanks...

[Puffs]

Well, of course delivery time & costs will also depend on how far you guys intend to drift away. So if you want one, get it before the UK sets sail...

But seriously, I find the standard ignition on my '89 ETZ251 very good, durable and reliable. Indeed, you have to adjust/clean/lube the breakers now and then, while if you have an electronic ignition that's not required. An electronic ignition takes away that hassle, and once set right, it will stay like that. In that sense, an electronic ignition is far more reliable - it always stays the same.

But on the other hand, you have to take off that engine cover anyway every, say, 1000 miles, to lube the chain & look at that. Casting a quick glance at the points, maybe pull a sandpaper through it & measure gap, is very little work (if the gap is the same, the pre-ignition is the same). In fact, I've ridden that bike now for some 26k miles, and I cannot remember that the ignition ever gave me any hassle.

I have had electrical troubles, but those were caused by the fuse box (corrosion/contact issues), and I would have had exactly the same issues with an electronic ignition that only replaces the contact breakers. So I feel that therein also lies a weakness of such systems: they still rely on an externally provided voltage (the battery + conventional charge system) and the original ignition coil to create the spark. So if your battery is flat, or poor continuity somewhere - no spark.

But, as Johan Cruyff said: every disadvantage has its advantage - because such systems only replace the contact breaker & condenser, it is very easy to keep those somewhere on the bike, so in the unlikely case of a failure in the electronic breaker system, it is relatively easy to recover.

Many other (modern) bikes, originally equipped with an electronic ignition, use another system which does not use a battery for the ignition. Such systems are also available for the MZ, but obviously more expensive, as they also replace the generator.

[Guesi]

With a dead battery you also have problems with a contact breaker ignition.
So no difference or advantage.

And Imagine an ES 250/2 sidecar driver.
For him it is not that easy to control the ignition.
First there is not much space to move when a sidecar is fitted (factory fitted, means sidecar is on the right side :- )
And second he cannot control easily what position the piston has, because the hole for the spark plug is not central in the top of the cylinderhead.

For these people the electronic ignition is an advantage

[Puffs]

Yes, so in that sense the original system & your electronic system are equivalent. But a system that does not rely on the battery has one clear advantage over a system that just replaces the contact breaker: you don't need the battery, and the ignition is not susceptible to problems in the charge system, or other continuity issues.

What you say about the sidecar & head on a ES250 is clear, but I believe the OP has an ETZ125, probably without sidecar.

Anyway, to each his own. I've considered various electronic systems, but for now I personally can't get too excited about buying anything for the ETZ251. In the exceptionally unlikely event that I attach a sidecar to it, to cart Boris around the EU, I'll reconsider.

[Blurredman]

I have two sets of electronic ignitions. One is currently fitted to my '90 251.

I have gone about 10k miles on it now. I think it's great- although to be fair- the only reason I bought it was because I could not set the contact breaker gap size. For whatever reason, whether it be something like a crank issue or stator warp etc I could never get the correct timing point unless the gap was 3mm. So- I decided to get contactless.

That was around three years I guess now and the bike has given me an impressive holiday on what was a machine that only cost (base) £100 to me. I had other issues but not related to the contact breakers or contactless.

I would like to give the adjustably timed electronic ignition a go- but is 0 degrees btdc a bit retarded for 1000 rpm?? I would put maybe 10 dbtdc. ??

As for me- the prospect of adjusting the contact breakers, or replacing them, or lubing them, was never an issue for me.. The issue was that for that particular machine electronic was my only option. I have however now got a rebuilt crank- So I wonder to myself.. Could I implement the contact breakers again?

On my one MZ, I like to keep it as factory original as possible including the contact breakers (and continental fuses)- and I have no problem there with mine.

[otb123]

Thanks for all the detailed responses and opinions, true what they say about the mz community..!

I already have a set of points and condenser on order so think I'll fit them, get the timing spot on, fit a new air cleaner, overhaul and jet the carb and see how well things are running...

Cheers,