Engine swap from TS250/1 to 250 ETZ

[Rob NL]

Hi All,

My TS 250/1 has a worn engine.
I've been offered to buy a ETZ 250 engine.

I always thought these both engines are somewhat the same, but I want to make sure before buying one.
So what is needed to fit it into my 1979 TS250/1? Is it plug and play? What are the differences between a TS angine and an ETZ engine? (besides ignition).
What adjustments are needed?

Thanks in advance!

[Puffs]

'Worn engine' is a fluid concept Rob... Maybe there are a few issues that require attention, and yes it might be easier/cheaper to get another engine, but you do not know that engine either, and originality might also have value. Anyway, it's a choice.

On the technical, the obvious thing is the way the engine is fixated in the frame. Measure & compare all distances (including the width at the rear end). It might be the same, but I don't know. Other than that, the exhaust header might be different, as might be the intake manifold.

Good luck; please let us know if it fits.

[Kruh]

Yeah, especially since you've got the 5 speed transmission. The etz and ts/1 have pretty much the same transmission, clutch, etc. So you won't gain anything there. The slight power increase of the etz, from what I hear isn't that benefitial. In fact people prefer the TS because of its low end power. Not to mention, you will probably need the etz exhaust if you want the best performance. Although, not sure how the ts would affect it.
I'd personally just get it rebuilt. Pretty sure it wouldn't be more expensive, considering something on the etz engine might require attention.

I do think, as well, that the engines are very similar. I imagine the rear mounts would fit.
But I do know for a fact, that the etz cylinder is bigger in size. Therefore, when put on a TS it sits angeled down and might be an issue with fitment of that rubber mount. Also it might affect the pipe.
Personally, the etz engine looks quite out of place on the ts, and it doesn't fit the look of that bike at all.
There is a fair amount of photos of TSs with etz engines.

[Rob NL]

Thank you for your answers. The original engine is not lost. It needs some new sealings, bearings and a new crankshaft (and probably new cilinder/piston). So, actually it needs a rebuild. I'm pretty sure it can be done, but I'm not sure it can be done by me

So I think it is easier for me to just replace it with another engine.
I'd checked some pictures and most important parts looks like the same or easy to adjust to fit with TS parts. It looks like the exhaust will fit also. TS downpipe looks a bit more bended though.

I think I'll ask the guy for what price he will sell and if he can say anything about the state (he has 5 of them). And if the price is right I'll give it a try.
And otherwise I'll rebuild my original with some help of a real mechanic.

It does look a bit "different" I agree...

[Kruh]

I see, fair enough. Once you add the labour to the price... Hard to disccuss until you know the true extent of the damage. There is a chance that the engine is better than you think. From what I can tell, you haven't had the engine apart, so the crank might be just fine, maybe even the cylinder. Maybe all it needs are new seals and bearing.

The downpipe isn't an issue, since it mounts under the ignition cover. What happens beetwen that clamp and cylinder doesn't matter. It would mean that an etz downpipe is requeride atleast. Only thing to think about is the angle of the pipe at the clamp. Pretty sure its flat like the ts, so its probaply not an issue.

[Rob NL]

I've found this topic by the way:
https://mzriders.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2941

[Puffs]

Well Rob, with some 40 years of history I'd be slightly surprised if you were the first to raise this issue. Search on the wider web & you'll find many more opinions. But if I were you, if at all possible, I'd try to keep the bike as close as possible to original; Frankenbikes tend to have a reduced value. That's just my opinion.
And of course the guy that wants to sell you the ETZ engine will tell you that it had only been used by an elderly lady on her Sunday trip to church or so, and that it had been professionally overhauled just 200 km before she had that unfortunate accident. Believe me, it is true.
But you probably won't really know what you're buying - may get lucky, may get burned.

On the other hand, I appreciate that if you don't do the work yourself, EU labour costs will likely turn overhauling an engine into an expensive exercise, quite possibly not economically feasible. If you can get that ETZ engine for a good price, yes, it might be attractive. And of course you can fit an ETZ engine into a TS. With some work & adaptations, and that might well be quite minor in this case. Recently we saw a Montesa engine fitted into an MZ; anything is possible. That was more work.
If you want to go that way, I suggest you inventorise what you want done, who will do it & what it will cost.

[Guesi]

Don´t forget that you have to change all electrical parts to 12 V.
ETZ engine and alternator has 12 V. So you need a Battery, rectifier, regulator, bulbs etc.

[Rob NL]

But you probably won't really know what you're buying - may get lucky, may get burned.

That I know. But it can hardly be any worse than what I have now

Don´t forget that you have to change all electrical parts to 12 V.
ETZ engine and alternator has 12 V. So you need a Battery, rectifier, regulator, bulbs etc.

Original TS alternator will never fit? Good to know!

[Rob NL]

I didn't hear anything from the guy with the ETZ engine.
So I've decided to start dismantling the engine myself and see how far I will get myself in refurbishing the engine.

It means I need some specific tools to split the engine.
Does anyone know this guy?
https://sprzedajemy.pl/mz-etz-250-narze ... nr62513163

He's offering these tools for around 100 euros.

[Blurredman]

The only tool you really need is the clutch puller. All the other items just make it nicer to do..

I've also considered buying such kits, but alas the clutch puller, and an improvised crankcase splitter (just a long piece of metal with some holes in it), is all you actually need/want...

[Guesi]

The polish guy wanted more than 1000 Euro for the toolset.

A good clutch extractor costs about 35-40 Euro. The cheap ones are avaiable for 5-6 Euro, but with these you ruin your crankshaft or maybe more.

The "Montagebrücke" costs about 80-90 Euro and makes many things easier on dismantling and reassembling the engine.

But the only thing you really need is a good clutch extractor. All other tools make it easier.

[Puffs]

Some tools are a necessity, some tools make things easier, and some tools can be home-made.

Not a good clutch puller, made from decent steel & properly fitting, as those clutches can be tight. See Haynes Fig. 9.8, P43 (pertaining to the ETZ, not the TS, but I guess it'll be similar). There are also 1 or 2 horror stories on poor pullers on this forum.

It looks like you'll get a quite complete set of tools for those 100€, including some things I do not have, and I know nothing about the quality of these tools.

Look in the books before you start, Haynes and the official MZ ones, in either English (Blurredman's site) or German (miraculis.de).

[Rob NL]

Thanks for the advice.
I figured out already that the puller is the most important.
I've also been thinking of making a bridge myself, can't go anyware anyway. :S

The polish guy wanted more than 1000 Euro for the toolset.

Strange, he offered me the whole set for 450 polish money (~100 euro).
Last summer I ordered some parts at your website, so If I can't anything close to home I know where to look

[Guesi]

The offer on the link to the polish seller says that the price ist for the bridge. Not all the tools.